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pip installer | pip3 installer |

pedro - 6 months ago -

Hello everyone .

Please tell me what program in the repository can replace python3-pip ? this program is not free.

There are many interesting programs that run through pip or pip3 .

I would appreciate advice and help.


Replies (10)

RE: pip installer | pip3 installer | - nona - 6 months ago -

Hi pedro. Can you clarify why you think the package is non-free? Thanks.

RE: pip installer | pip3 installer | - bill-auger - 6 months ago -

parabola has no 'python3-pip' package; so i can not tell you anything about it - 'python-pip' is the only parabola package with the `pip` program; and it is libre

pip should be used as a development tool - for simply installing software for regular use, it should be avoided - the problem with pip and the many interesting programs which need it, is that those interesting programs can use pip to install some non-free dependencies - none of those interesting programs are parabola packages though, so there is no way for parabola to know what they will do - the best way to deal with them (third-party software), if the "interesting program" is also a "useful and desirable program", it could be added to parabola, so that parabola users never need to use pip

pip installer | pip3 installer | - pedro - 6 months ago -

Hello everyone .

Maybe I'm wrong, but I came to this conclusion by looking at the packages in other distros and reading the information a bit. For example, https://www.hyperbola.info/packages/ does not have this package in its repositories, and https://packages.trisquel.org/ also does not have this package.

RE: pip installer | pip3 installer | - bill-auger - 6 months ago -

ok i understand your concern now - generally, if some software is not available in trisquel and hyperbola, that does not indicate that it is non-free software - distros decide which software to include or not, for various reasons - if pip was non-free, then none of the FSDG distros would distribute it; and other distros would store it in their 'non-free' repos (but they do not)

generally, the best way to answer such questions is the FSD - if the program is listed on that website, it is libre - pip is listed

https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Python-pip

there is no replacement for pip in any distro - pip is a special tool which does a single special job - namely, it installs python packages - if you would like to use programs which recommends pip, but in the absence of the pip program, you have only two options - the first, i mentioned before: ask you distro to package that program - the second is to manually download and install all of the packages that pip would install to support the program

pip installer | pip3 installer | - pedro - 6 months ago -

Hello bill-auger

Thank you very much, you explained everything to me very clearly!

If I may, a few more clarifying questions on this topic.

If I understood correctly, I download the program from the Debian repository ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python-pip/python-pip_1.5.6.orig.tar.gz using your link and install it, then I compiling the program I need.

Why don't other distributions, unlike Parabola, include it in their repositories if the rules FSDG are the same for everyone? Perhaps there are some other reasons?

RE: pip installer | pip3 installer | - bill-auger - 6 months ago -

i was not suggesting to install debian software, or anything from the FSD - no parabola dev would ever do that - the link to the FSD was only to demonstrate that pip is libre - as general advice, you can use that website to answer any similar questions like "is 'foo' a libre program?"

the general advice is to never use any software which was not distributed from your distro - the specific advice WRT pip, is that pip is dangerous, and most people should avoid using it, for any reason, because its only purpose is to install software which is not distributed from your distro - if you are brave enough to use pip, it is best to use the one that your distro distributes; but be extra cautious to avoid ever running a pip command as root or with sudo

if your distro is parabola, simply install the parabola package

# pacman -S python-pip

RE: pip installer | pip3 installer | - bill-auger - 6 months ago -

the FSDG is mainly about what distros should not do - it has very few prescriptions for what distros must do - the FSDG currently has no specific wording, which would suggest that third-party package managers such as pip, may or may not be included - the wording suggests indirectly that perhaps these may be unacceptable, however - perhaps it should be clarified; but today distros are deciding each for themselves

if the FSDG suggested that distros should not distribute pip, then many other programs would need to go with it (most third-party package managers, many games, video downloaders such as youtube-dl and minitube, etc)

each distro decides which software to include or not, for various reasons - distros do not distribute every software in existence - each
distro decides whether or not some program is valuable for their users, and if it fits well into the system, does not duplicate another program, etc - if all those factors are satisfied, then it may be included ("may" not "must") - conversely, if that distro's users do not value some program, then there is no reason to include it (or it could be removed if present) - if it does not fit well into the system, then it must be absent

pip installer | pip3 installer | - pedro - 6 months ago -

Hello bill-auger

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. If everyone answered like you so kindly, then the number of users would increase significantly!

Your reasoning is very logical, most likely the creators of other free distros considered it necessary for their ethical views not to include this program in their repositories.

Suppose this program were not in Parabola , what alternative program or programs could replace it .

RE: pip installer | pip3 installer | - bill-auger - 6 months ago -

there is no replacement for pip - there are (more precisely) three options - the first, i mentioned before: ask you distro to package that program - the other option is to DIY - navigate the AUR forest alone, installing perhaps dozens of python-* packages - this option is sincerely preferred over pip - a last resort option is to manually download and install all of the packages that pip would install to support each interesting python program

all three are tedious procedures for someone - i may do the former for parabola, but for my personal use, i would not do the latter - whatever that python program can do, there probably exists a native code program or AUR PKGBUILD which does the same, with or without python - the native code program would very likely have all dependencies satisfied in the parabola repos already

pip installer | pip3 installer | - pedro - 6 months ago -

Hello bill-auger .

Thank you for your reply.

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