you did not show any error messages; so there is no way to identify the problem you are having

i just installed a parabola x86_64 nonsystemd system, using parabola-x86_64-systemd-cli-2022.04-netinstall.iso, following the install guide instructions, and everything works as expected

Hello Bill.
Thank you for your answer. I have a question for you based on your answer.

1. Did you install parabola-x86_64-systemd-cli-2022.04-netinstall.iso according to my instructions for OpenRC?
As I wrote above, I would like to do everything correctly from the very beginning and not correct errors that appear after installation. Therefore, it is important for me at this stage that you look at whether I am doing everything correctly in my instructions that I published. Is everything right?

If you check and confirm that I did everything correctly, then I will show you what errors I encountered after updating the system.

sam wrote:

As I wrote above, I would like to do everything correctly from the very beginning

In that case, may be:

bill wrote:

following the install guide instructions, and everything works as expected

sam wrote:

and not correct errors that appear after installation. Therefore, it is important for me at this stage that you look at whether I am doing everything correctly in my instructions that I published. Is everything right?

Please, keep in mind that time is limited for most people...

If you check and confirm that I did everything correctly, then I will show you what errors I encountered after updating the system.

... and as helpful and kind as bill may be, it would be better if you first follow the instructions on the wiki (which seem to work).

if you were referring to the 'OpenRC' wiki page, that is not up-to-date; and you should probably ignore it for now - the install guide https://wiki.parabola.nu/Installation_Guide has correct instructions for both systemd and non-systemd

Thank you for your answer.

I can’t understand what you want to tell me)) First you write that you need to follow the wiki, which is what I did, then you write that the OpenRC wiki page is outdated??

I wrote all the complete instructions here, I didn’t copy it from the wiki, but I wrote the specific steps by which I installed Parabola with OpenRC.

I ask you to check my instructions so that we can figure it out further, I am sure that this topic will be very useful to other users, since I have seen others also fail when installing Parabola with OpenRC.

I don't want to install Parabola with SystemD, I want to install Parabola with OpenRC!

if you can boot the fresh parabola non-systemd system, it is probably installed properly - show any error messages that you see, whatever makes you believe that something is wrong - if it does not boot, then you should re-install the OS

to install a parabola non-systemd system, follow the install guide only https://wiki.parabola.nu/Installation_Guide

do not do anything mentioned on the 'OpenRC' wiki page https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC until after you have a boot-able parabola non-systemd system - everything on the 'OpenRC' wiki page is optional, and some of it is wrong

Thank you for your answer.

You write:

Don't do anything mentioned on the OpenRC wiki page https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC until you have a bootable non-system Parabola system - everything on the OpenRC wiki page is optional and some are wrong

Okay, let’s say I installed a system with SystemD, I can boot and everything works stably, what do I need to do next so that I have OpenRC?
I want to use OpenRC and remove SystemD how to do this?

It’s a pity that you don’t want to look at my instructions, which I tried and wrote here, because following it, I installed everything, but after the update I got Dbus, etc. not working

I do not exclude my mistake, perhaps I updated the system, after the Pacman -Syuu command, a huge number of packages were updated and perhaps a failure occurred, which is why I ask you to look at my installation. If she didn't work, I wouldn't ask you about this.

sam wrote:

It’s a pity that you don’t want to look at my instructions, which I tried and wrote here, because following it, I installed everything, but after the update I got Dbus, etc. not working

It seems strange to me that you say that you read the wiki and at the same time that you installed everything, because, the wiki has:

• https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC#Migrating_from_a_Systemd_installation
  

  # pacman -Syu elogind openrc your-init-freedom
  

• https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC#Base_system
  

  # pacstrap /mnt base elogind libelogind your-init-freedom 
  

• https://wiki.parabola.nu/Installation_Guide#OpenRC
  

  # pacstrap /mnt --ignore systemd-libs --ignore systemd base libelogind elogind-openrc your-init-freedom
  

I can only speak for myself when I say that something in your process went wrong. The instructions are already there (bill says that following them do gets him a working system). From that perspective, it is not really why someone is unwilling to follow your instructions, but why you won't follow the already existing instructions. Debugging someone else's specific steps may take longer.

I do see that you have

# pacstrap /mnt libelogind openrc

but that usually raises issues that you may have overlooked. Then you say

if you find any errors, please let me know

and immediately later

I don’t want to correct errors

1. Use the iso that bill suggested
2. However you want, get a clean partition (seems like you can do that already)
3. Follow the Installation guide starting here: https://wiki.parabola.nu/Installation_Guide#Mount_the_partitions

Even if you had followed the old OpenRC wiki (nothing in your steps tell me that), I wonder why the only OpenRC command that you use is poweroff.

Good luck. Learning to ask for help is indeed a skill.

Hello Nona. Thanks for your answer and your recommendations.

The fact that you take it from the wiki and paste commands here does not mean that it works, Bill wrote the same thing, if you missed it, he wrote to ignore the OpenRC section, and you recommend it to me))

This is not debugging someone else's steps, I'm debugging the wiki)) I just found out that you can't use the OpenRC section! I don't mind doing this, but I need an adjustment so that the working instructions remain here and another user can use it.

Another important point: I’m not migrating from Arch Linux, but installing the system from scratch

I’ll leave it here as an example of how it could look clean here for OpenRC https://wiki.artixlinux.org/Main/Installation

Hi. None of what I said recommended you to use the OpenRC wiki.

As bill said

to install a parabola non-systemd system, follow the install guide only https://wiki.parabola.nu/Installation_Guide

do not do anything mentioned on the 'OpenRC' wiki page https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC until after you have a boot-able parabola non-systemd system - everything on the 'OpenRC' wiki page is optional, and some of it is wrong

Good luck and all the best!

I see no point in arguing in vain without solving the problem, since I want to solve this issue and also help other users who will read this topic and there are quite a few of them! So I tried this option and it worked, the system boots, I don’t see any errors.

# pacstrap /mnt base base-devel elogind libelogind your-init-freedom

# pacstrap /mnt dhcpcd-openrc openssh-openrc net-tools lvm2 cryptsetup nano grub sudo  linux-libre-lts

I didn’t use the last line you indicated, everything worked as it is, I don’t know what it will do or spoil...

# pacstrap /mnt --ignore systemd-libs --ignore systemd base libelogind elogind-openrc your-init-freedom

#ls -l /sbin/init 
/sbin/init -> openrc-init

I want to use OpenRC and remove SystemD how to do this?

that is a very different situation from a normal "install" - it presumes that the installations is already complete - is this the situation you are actually in now?

the install guide does not describe migration - that process would be covered by the migration guides - to migrate an existing parabola system from one init-system to any other, should be as simple as enabling the appropriate repos (eg: [nonsystemd]) and running `pacman -Syyuu`

It’s a pity that you don’t want to look at my instructions

i read it yesterday - there is nothing peculiar or noteworthy about it, especially if none of those commands failed - but you have not given any detail about commands or tasks that did fail, which is the actual problem to address - error messages speak for themselves - you could as well have shown them first, without any of the installation details

I got Dbus, etc. not working

what does that entail? - exactly what did you expect to happen or do, if it was "working"? - can you demonstrate (an error message perhaps), of the standard bug report form:

1. When I .... (do something specific, eg: click on "launch Foo program" button)
2. I expect .... (the computer to do something specific, eg: launch the Foo program)
3. But instead, it actually ... (did something that i believe is incorrect, eg: showed an error message: "Foo program failed to launch!")

after the Pacman -Syuu command, a huge number of packages were updated and perhaps a failure occurred

now that is interesting - so you can boot the system? - so that covers #1 and #2 - #3 is still incomplete

1. When I .... boot the fresh system and run pacman -Syuu
2. I expect .... the system to upgrade all packages
3. But instead, it actually ... what?

and repeat those 3 for any other noticeable side-effects afterward. eg:

1. When I .... query the 'networkmanager' service status (`rc-service networkmanager status`)
2. I expect .... to see "* status: started"
3. But instead, it actually ... shows "* status: stopped"

if there are error messages, those are essential for trouble-shooting
if there are no error messages, and no spcific noticeable side-effects, then you have not yet demonstrated any problem

This is not debugging someone else's steps, I'm debugging the wiki

thanks - that is important and appreciated - nona has been helping to update the OpenRC wiki article recently - that needs work, and may not even be needed - the main install guide covers all of the standard use-cases (arch * init * WMDE configurations - eg: x86_64, systemd, LXDE)

most importantly, the main install guide is correct - if anything in the install guide were incorrect, that would deserve a bug report - IIRC, the problems witjh the OpenRC page have some bug reports already, also other threads on this forum, and the "discuss" page on the wiki https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:OpenRC (which is probably the most appropriate space for this discussion)

pacstrap /mnt --ignore systemd-libs --ignore systemd base libelogind elogind-openrc your-init-freedom

nona -

the wiki may not have mentioned those --ignore options a few days ago - such verbosity should not be necessary though - ideally, 'base' should be sufficient, regardless of the init - i am going to revert that change from the wiki - i suspect that i know a proper solution for whichever problem that change was intended to resolve

that install guide is critical, high-priority, and probably should be locked - if those instructions do not work, there is a bug to be fixed, which should have a 'documentation' bug report - the openrc page needs work, but the main install guide was correct before you made that change

# pacstrap /mnt base libelogind

Hello Bill . Thank you very much for your answer. I agree with you that this topic can be useful for both users and the wiki editors.

After updating the system with

$ sudo pacman -Syu

$ sudo systemctl status dbus-broker.service                                                              
[sudo] password for sam: 
○ dbus-broker.service
     Loaded: masked (Reason: Unit dbus-broker.service is masked.)
     Active: inactive (dead)
TriggeredBy: × dbus.socket

$ sudo systemctl status dbus.service
[sudo] password for sam: 
Warning: The unit file, source configuration file or drop-ins of dbus-broker.service changed on disk. Run 'syst>
○ dbus-broker.service
     Loaded: masked (Reason: Unit dbus-broker.service is masked.)
     Active: inactive (dead)
TriggeredBy: × dbus.socket

At this stage, as I wrote above, I reinstalled the system with OpenRC using the commands that I added and now everything works correctly. At least I don't see any errors.

 # pacstrap /mnt base base-devel elogind libelogind your-init-freedom

# pacstrap /mnt dhcpcd-openrc openssh-openrc net-tools lvm2 cryptsetup nano grub sudo  linux-libre-lts

There is also a question related to installing programs. When I tried to install openrc-bash-completions (nonsystemd) I got an error, but when I installed bash-completions (extra) everything installed correctly. Or for example, when I installed wpa_supplicant-openrc, everything was installed without errors, so I have a question about how to install (choose) correctly if I use OpenRC?

sam wrote:

I agree with you that this topic can be useful for both users and the wiki editors.

i meant literally that every wiki article has a dedicated "Discussion" tab for that purpose - you may be interested to read and/or add to https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:OpenRC

if something in the wiki is incorrect, that should have a bug report with category 'documentation'

threads (like this one) in the "troubles-shooting" forum category are yet unknown, unconfirmed, un-reproducible, problems - once a problem has been confirmed in a troubles-shooting support request, the issue would be escalated to a bug report

$ sudo systemctl status dbus.service

that command would not work with openrc - the `systemctl` program would not be installed

you probably only needed to `sudo pacman -Syyuu` and start using the openrc commands:

$ rc-service dbus status
$ rc-service dbus start
$ rc-service dbus stop

When I tried to install openrc-bash-completions (nonsystemd) I got an error, but when I installed bash-completions (extra) everything installed correctly.

that should have a bug report

Or for example, when I installed wpa_supplicant-openrc, everything was installed without errors, so I have a question about how to install (choose) correctly if I use OpenRC?

IIRC, networkmanager is the only easy way to setup networking with nonsystemd

# pacman -S networkmanager-openrc
# rc-update add NetworkManager default

Bill thanks for your answers.
I wrote down the errors that I wrote regarding Dbus to paste them here, I understand the difference in how to check a service in systemD and OpenRC, I wanted to show them. At this stage I installed Parabola with OpenRC and so far everything is working well.

Bill,

I found an error in my notes that I received when I wanted to update.

sudo pacman -Syyuu
[sudo] password for sam: 
:: Synchronizing package databases...
 nonsystemd                              85.9 KiB  95.4 KiB/s 00:01 [#####################################] 100%
 libre                                  336.7 KiB   601 KiB/s 00:01 [#####################################] 100%
 core                                   111.1 KiB   631 KiB/s 00:00 [#####################################] 100%
 extra                                    7.9 MiB  1296 KiB/s 00:06 [#####################################] 100%
 pcr                                    484.3 KiB   835 KiB/s 00:01 [#####################################] 100%
:: Starting full system upgrade...
warning: accountsservice: downgrading from version 23.13.9-1 to version 0.6.55-1.nonsystemd1
warning: dbus: downgrading from version 1.14.10-2 to version 1.14.6-2.nonsystemd1
warning: libp11-kit: downgrading from version 0.25.3-1 to version 0.24.0-2.nonsystemd1
warning: libpipewire: downgrading from version 1:1.0.5-1 to version 1:1.0.4-3.nonsystemd1
warning: libusb: downgrading from version 1.0.27-1 to version 1.0.23-2.nonsystemd1
warning: mkinitcpio: downgrading from version 38.1-1 to version 38-3.nonsystemd1
warning: p11-kit: downgrading from version 0.25.3-1 to version 0.24.0-2.nonsystemd1
warning: polkit: downgrading from version 124-2 to version 122-1.nonsystemd1
warning: util-linux: downgrading from version 2.40-2 to version 2.40rc2-2.nonsystemd1
warning: util-linux-libs: downgrading from version 2.40-2 to version 2.40rc2-2.nonsystemd1
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...
:: elogind-252.9-2 and systemd-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd? [y/N] ^C
Interrupt signal received

that is not an error - pacman is asking you to uninstall 'systemd' and replace it with 'elogind' - that entire log is exactly what i would expect to see when migrating from systemd to nonsystemd - if you choose Y, you will probably get several more related suggestions after that one - remove whatever pacman asks you to remove

a very simple check:

$ pacman -Qqs systemd | grep systemd

once the system is migrated to nonsystemd, that command above should print nothing - if it prints anything, then the system is not fully migrated to nonsystemd

Bill, thank you for helping me, here is my output after the command. I tried to delete everything when I wanted to update the system, but I received this message

 $ sudo pacman -Syyuu                                                                             
[sudo] password for sam:                                                                                         
:: Synchronizing package databases...
 nonsystemd                              85.9 KiB  82.6 KiB/s 00:01 [#####################################] 100%
 libre                                  336.7 KiB   322 KiB/s 00:01 [#####################################] 100%
 core                                   111.1 KiB   358 KiB/s 00:00 [#####################################] 100%
 extra                                    7.9 MiB   612 KiB/s 00:13 [#####################################] 100%
 pcr                                    484.3 KiB   528 KiB/s 00:01 [#####################################] 100%
:: Starting full system upgrade...
warning: accountsservice: downgrading from version 23.13.9-1 to version 0.6.55-1.nonsystemd1
warning: dbus: downgrading from version 1.14.10-2 to version 1.14.6-2.nonsystemd1
warning: libp11-kit: downgrading from version 0.25.3-1 to version 0.24.0-2.nonsystemd1
warning: libpipewire: downgrading from version 1:1.0.5-1 to version 1:1.0.4-3.nonsystemd1
warning: libusb: downgrading from version 1.0.27-1 to version 1.0.23-2.nonsystemd1
warning: mkinitcpio: downgrading from version 38.1-1 to version 38-3.nonsystemd1
warning: p11-kit: downgrading from version 0.25.3-1 to version 0.24.0-2.nonsystemd1
warning: polkit: downgrading from version 124-2 to version 122-1.nonsystemd1
warning: util-linux: downgrading from version 2.40-2 to version 2.40rc2-2.nonsystemd1
warning: util-linux-libs: downgrading from version 2.40-2 to version 2.40rc2-2.nonsystemd1
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...
:: elogind-252.9-2 and systemd-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd? [y/N] y
:: libelogind-252.9-2 and systemd-libsystemd-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict (libsystemd.so). Remove systemd-libsystemd? [y/N] y
:: libelogind-252.9-2 and systemd-libs-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict (libsystemd). Remove systemd-libs? [y/N] y
:: your-init-freedom-20221021-1 and systemd-common-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd-common? [y/N] y
:: your-init-freedom-20221021-1 and systemd-nss-myhostname-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd-nss-myhostname? [y/N] y
:: your-init-freedom-20221021-1 and systemd-nss-mymachines-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd-nss-mymachines? [y/N] y
:: your-init-freedom-20221021-1 and systemd-nss-resolve-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd-nss-resolve? [y/N] y
:: your-init-freedom-20221021-1 and systemd-nss-systemd-255.4-2.parabola1 are in conflict. Remove systemd-nss-systemd? [y/N] y
error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies)
:: removing systemd-common breaks dependency 'systemd-common=255.4-2.parabola1' required by systemd-udev

 
$ pacman -Qqs systemd | grep systemd                                                             
systemd
systemd-common
systemd-libs
systemd-libsystemd
systemd-libudev
systemd-nss-myhostname
systemd-nss-mymachines
systemd-nss-resolve
systemd-nss-systemd
systemd-sysvcompat
systemd-udev

After installing the system I received the following error, screenshot below.

I would also like to clarify since I did not understand whether it is necessary to run this command during installation? https://wiki.parabola.nu/Installation_Guide#OpenRC

# pacstrap /mnt --ignore systemd-libs --ignore systemd base libelogind elogind-openrc your-init-freedom

or I can use this command:

# pacstrap /mnt base base-devel elogind libelogind your-init-freedom

other than 'base-devel', both of those commands would install the same set of packages

Bill ,thank you very much for your help.

Please tell me what the error that I received after installing the system means? Attached a screenshot (failed.png ) of the error above.

that is the log of the LiveISO shutting down - it was trying to unmount it's own virtual disks, but failed for some reason - it is completely harmless - it is not related to the system that you installed

I understood you, thank you very much for the information!